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Configuring router and WLAN in Elisa cable modem; Bewan c5200n eMTA

  • 24 helmikuu 2010
  • 24 kommenttia
  • 14966 katselukerrat

Hi there,
I just got this cable modem from Elisa with the "Viihde" service.
I feel cheated because I thought I would be able to set up my home network just I was able to do over plain ADSL.

These are the things I want to do:
- be able to configure MAC-address-based access, or turn off WLAN as a whole
- configure DHCP (including designating static IPs)
- configure NAT (open ports, port redirection, etc; general access to the router settings so one could set up gaming for the kids, SSH, FTP, HTTP and other services/servers for the grown-ups)

Now, all these feature are actually supported the by the modem itself (have a look at the http://www.bewan.com/produit.php?page=produit&parm1=bw-iboxc5200&parm2=fiche ' TARGET='_blank). So. I guess it was Elisa that disabled all this, rendering an otherwise functional to a piece of junk.

The Elisa web configuration seems to be rubbish; it allows access only to a few WLAN settings.

Now, a few questions:
Is there an official way to access the rest of the settings?
Has anyone downloaded and reversed the firmware yet?
Is there a similar box in Verkkokauppa, Jimm's, etc that one could use instead of the Elisa modem?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.

*Edit*
I forgot: I need Dynamic DNS, too - preferably to no-ip.org.

24 kommenttia

Hey,

Elisa is supposed to release a new firmware within 1-2 weeks.

I think it enables the following features:
- Port forwarding
- Bridged mode

It will still be web based configuration (Oma Elisa). Might be additional features, not sure.

Now, a few questions:
Is there an official way to access the rest of the settings?
Has anyone downloaded and reversed the firmware yet?
Is there a similar box in Verkkokauppa, Jimm's, etc that one could use instead of the Elisa modem?

I haven't heard official or unofficial way to access settings. It is a shame, but Elisa support has said here, that they have made this piece of junk to the masses, not for "nerds".

There is no firmware available. There is a way (I think) to upgrade firmware through modem itself, but the firmware is not available. Someone has asked it directly from modem manufacturer, but they are not allowed to give it.

I think there is alternative choices for modem, BUT new modem would have different MAC address, and it wouldn't work with Elisa network (this is just a guess).

I think your only chance is that you buy router next to Elisa modem and made necessary routing, port etc. functions to there. But don't make hasty decisions because modem firmware is supposed to upgrade in 1-2 weeks.
First of all, thank you for the replies, I am "glad" to see that I others have the same problems. More people complaining and canceling their subscriptions -> more stress on Elisa to fix the problems.


Hey,

Elisa is supposed to release a new firmware within 1-2 weeks.

I think it enables the following features:
- Port forwarding
- Bridged mode

It will still be web based configuration (Oma Elisa). Might be additional features, not sure.

To be able to do port forwarding, one needs static IP addresses on the LAN and that means you need access to DHCP settings. If that is true, half of my problems could be solved, so that's good news.

Bridged mode would work for me, but that means I have to go and buy a separate router.


I haven't heard official or unofficial way to access settings. It is a shame, but Elisa support has said here, that they have made this piece of junk to the masses, not for "nerds". 

Well, my guess is that the masses have desire to use their internet connection for more than just surfing the internet and email. At least the younger generation - who grew up (or, growing up right now) on the internet does.


There is no firmware available. There is a way (I think) to upgrade firmware through modem itself, but the firmware is not available. Someone has asked it directly from modem manufacturer, but they are not allowed to give it.

Right, but you can always get it out from the modem. That's why I asked if there was anyone working on reversing the code.


I think there is alternative choices for modem, BUT new modem would have different MAC address, and it wouldn't work with Elisa network (this is just a guess).

I think most cable modems allow specifying their own MAC address, so that should not be an issue, but I would even go as far as saying that the access is not tied to the MAC address.

I think your only chance is that you buy router next to Elisa modem and made necessary routing, port etc. functions to there. But don't make hasty decisions because modem firmware is supposed to upgrade in 1-2 weeks.

Yes, but then one needs the bridged mode; which, according to alert101 is coming.
1-2 weeks is not too long, I can wait that much - I was wise enough not to cancel my ADSL until the new setup is operational.
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To be able to do port forwarding, one needs static IP addresses on the LAN and that means you need access to DHCP settings. If that is true, half of my problems could be solved, so that's good news.


Already today you should be able to do this with the following procedure:

Modem's DHCP range is from 192.168.100.10 to 192.168.100.59, the address 192.168.100.70 is reserved for the IPTV box but rest of the available addresses in the address space you can use as you wish (they are basically static as modem will not touch those but will route them).

Of course with current modem software you cannot do the port forwardings yet but this should be fixed soon.

Modem's DHCP range is from 192.168.100.10 to 192.168.100.59, the address 192.168.100.70 is reserved for the IPTV box but rest of the available addresses in the address space you can use as you wish (they are basically static as modem will not touch those but will route them).

Hi Miikka,
do I understand this correctly: You are saying that each MAC address will get the same IP address, even if that address is not being used for a long time (e.g. 1 week) and other devices might get connected in the meantime?

What do you mean by "will route them"? I guess you mean just plain NAT, right? I mean, there is no traffic to route without specifying open ports and port redirection.

Thank you.
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Kunniamerkki
Hi zotya,
When reading your posts I noticed that you're referring to kind of "power user" with management stuff on the modem. This issue has been up a lot and it looks like it's going to remain simple with Elisa Viihde service. Viihde is mainly targeted for normal home user who will mostly watch TV, rent some videos online etc, it's not intended for power users. I know that there's a certain percentage of these power users but as stated, it's not the target group.

Currently Saunalahti offers equal speed cable connection with better manageability and control but the price differs also. Viihde is an entertainment package for the whole family, in my opinion. I still do agree with some of your points.

I am not affiliated with Elisa in any way, just sharing my opinion based on facts (or fiction? 😉 at this bulletin board.
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do I understand this correctly: You are saying that each MAC address will get the same IP address, even if that address is not being used for a long time (e.g. 1 week) and other devices might get connected in the meantime?


In that scenario the modem doesn't allocate those addresses at all so you can use those for your own computers or devices by setting the static IP for them. So you have to disable DHCP in your device and set the static IP,which is outside of the modem's DHCP range.


What do you mean by "will route them"? I guess you mean just plain NAT, right? I mean, there is no traffic to route without specifying open ports and port redirection.


The modem is running on router mode, it will route all the traffic it receives.In addition, in the near future, you are able to enable port forwardings and adjust how the modem will do the routing for the specific IPs. In this case, if you are using static IPs outside of DHCP range then the IP doesn't change (unless you change it) and it will always have certain port forwarding rules enabled after you have set those. Other IPs will be then routed according the default routing settings, which is pretty moderate NAT.

NAT is enabled as long as the modem is working as a router and DHCP server. In the future, with the new software, the modem can be switched to bridged mode when it doesn't route and it will not provide DHCP service - in that mode it will not do NAT either.

Let's take an example, with using the modem and let's say the new software is already available.

You have a PC, which requires certain ports to be forwarded so some online games or certain applications will work. You can do this for example by setting the PC to use static IP instead of DHCP and selecting the IP from outside of DHCP range, let's say 192.168.100.72. After you have set the IP in your PC, it will get routed by the modem as it is operating in the IP range the modem is set to route. Then you would go to the Elisa's management panel and enable the port forwardings for this IP for the ports you want/need.

This example is most likely the simplest way without additional hardware. If you want more control, then one option would be to set the modem to bridged mode and purchasing additional switch/WLAN box/router, which could be set however you would like. But that will require additional hardware and might be unnecessary if the original modem functionality is enough.

Viihde is mainly targeted for normal home user who will mostly watch TV, rent some videos online etc, it's not intended for power users. I know that there's a certain percentage of these power users but as stated, it's not the target group.

Hi Fiiu,
I knew someone would say that ;-)
But I would rather say: not yet.
There are a lot of professionals in this country with families that watch TV. I do not think that they'll buy separate cable and TV subscriptions. It's cheaper to have it in one package, so I think that there is a good chance here for a nice migration to the cable+TV package - ultimately bringing in more of the power users.
You know, it's one thing who Elisa intends to target with the package, and another what's going to happen. You see, the whole Internet was not meant to be for what it is today. It just happened because the power users jumped on the concept, and recommended it to their friends and relatives. It would be a minimal investment for Elisa to enable the advanced settings, while the revenue might be great: instead of staying away, more and more power users would join bringing their friends and families along.
But, I guess I am going away from the original topic with such speculation and economy, so I'll stop here. It's Elisa's business; I can only recommend improving the gateway because it would be beneficial to both parties and hope that they listen to reason.

Currently Saunalahti offers equal speed cable connection with better manageability and control but the price differs also. Viihde is an entertainment package for the whole family, in my opinion. I still do agree with some of your points.

There were two reasons why I went for Viihde and not the internet-only package, and both of these reasons have been said by the sales person (in Koskikeskus/Tampere):
1. Travel-channel is included. My wife likes that channel, and it was listed on the back of that blue flier they show you in the shop. It was below the dotted line, so I was suspicious that it might be a pay-channel, so I asked if it was included in the package. The salesperson said yes.
2. The internet connection would be identical in every sense. To be honest, I did not ask if the router would offer the same features in both packages - normally, one does not need to ask such question when he is told that you are getting the same thing in both cases.
When I got the system up&running, there was no Travel Channel - well, there was  but it's pitch black. I call customer service and they tell me that it's a pay-channel. Then I explain what I discussed with the salesperson, and they tell me that it must have been a mistake from their part and they are sorry about that. Then I ask them to cancel the Viihde package because it's not what I was told it would be. The response is: you cannot do that because you signed a contract for two years... I tried to reason with them saying that I signed the contract because I was told that certain channels would be included, but they did not care...
And now you are telling me that I was misled with the internet connection, too???


This example is most likely the simplest way without additional hardware. If you want more control, then one option would be to set the modem to bridged mode and purchasing additional switch/WLAN box/router, which could be set however you would like. But that will require additional hardware and might be unnecessary if the original modem functionality is enough.

Yes, I am aware of all things you said here - but I would like to avoid manual configuration because I have Linux boxes here without display. I access those boxes via SSH and once I plug them into the new LAN, I will need to guess their IP addresses to access and configure them (or, plug a monitor to each and every one of them one-by-one to figure out the address).
So, I will wait for the first firmware and see what Elisa cooked up, and then I go and get a router. http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=17087 ' TARGET='_blank looks nice - it's even open-source...
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Yes, I am aware of all things you said here - but I would like to avoid manual configuration because I have Linux boxes here without display. I access those boxes via SSH and once I plug them into the new LAN, I will need to guess their IP addresses to access and configure them (or, plug a monitor to each and every one of them one-by-one to figure out the address).
So, I will wait for the first firmware and see what Elisa cooked up, and then I go and get a router. http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=17087 ' TARGET='_blank looks nice - it's even open-source...


In that case I think your best way forward is indeed to go for bridged mode in modem and get your own router, which gives you the flexibility in your environment. But true, it is best to way now for a moment to see how the new firmware will change the situation (I am pretty sure it won't allow MAC based DHCP allocation yet).

But true, it is best to way now for a moment to see how the new firmware will change the situation (I am pretty sure it won't allow MAC based DHCP allocation yet).

Do you happen to know where and how the new firmwares are announced?
Web page, email subscription, etc?
Thank you.
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Do you happen to know where and how the new firmwares are announced?
Web page, email subscription, etc?


I am sure that it will be announced at least in this forum when it is available. Maybe in this thread: http://palsta.elisa.fi/index.php/topic,862.0.html (thread in Finnish).

1. Travel-channel is included. My wife likes that channel, and it was listed on the back of that blue flier they show you in the shop. It was below the dotted line, so I was suspicious that it might be a pay-channel, so I asked if it was included in the package. The salesperson said yes.
When I got the system up&running, there was no Travel Channel - well, there was  but it's pitch black. I call customer service and they tell me that it's a pay-channel. Then I explain what I discussed with the salesperson, and they tell me that it must have been a mistake from their part and they are sorry about that


In fact Tracel Channel is part of Viihde-service, but unfortunately encrypted channels are not available in cable version yet. (Google translation is pretty good here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elisa.fi%2Fviihde%2Fkanavat%2F&sl=fi&tl=en )
Only Eurosport HD (channel 203) and Yle HD olympics (channel 223) are working at the moment.

Missing channels should be available to cable customers "second half of March" as stated in this thread:
http://palsta.elisa.fi/index.php/topic,698.0.html  ; (in finnish)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fi&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpalsta.elisa.fi%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2C698.0.html (Google translation)

In fact Tracel Channel is part of Viihde-service, but unfortunately encrypted channels are not available in cable version yet. Missing channels should be available to cable customers "second half of March" as stated in this thread:

Thanks, that's very good news. You just made my wife's day. I wonder why the technician said that it's a pay-channel... Maybe Elisa has internal communication problems?


In fact Tracel Channel is part of Viihde-service, but unfortunately encrypted channels are not available in cable version yet. Missing channels should be available to cable customers "second half of March" as stated in this thread:

Thanks, that's very good news. You just made my wife's day. I wonder why the technician said that it's a pay-channel... Maybe Elisa has internal communication problems?


It is a pay-tv channel but it's not charged separately, cause it's included in the Viiihde-package.

It is a pay-tv channel but it's not charged separately, cause it's included in the Viiihde-package.

And that makes it inescapably clear, thank you.
Now I just have to wait until mid-March.
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And at least my modem got new firmware last night. The bridged mode is now possible.
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Kunniamerkki
And with bridged mode you can use both NAT (internal) and external IP addresses. Just set all devices to DHCP for external IP, others which are set manually to 192.168.100.x-range are behind NAT as before. This was a feature I was expecting to see as I will need an external IP for Xbox 360 only (not working prefectly, don't know why but that's discussed in a different topic).

And at least my modem got new firmware last night. The bridged mode is now possible.

Yes, now that you mention it, I see mine was updated, too the current sw version is: C50D01-Elisa-RC3-30392.
So, it's automatic and there's no need to check for threads on the message board.
Unfortunately it seems that there's only one choice: router or bridged.
There's no way to turn off the WLAN is seems. I guess I'll have to open the box and take off the WLAN module from the board.


And with bridged mode you can use both NAT (internal) and external IP addresses. Just set all devices to DHCP for external IP, others which are set manually to 192.168.100.x-range are behind NAT as before. This was a feature I was expecting to see as I will need an external IP for Xbox 360 only (not working prefectly, don't know why but that's discussed in a different topic).

So Elisa reserved the 192.168.100.0/24 for themselves and it will work always as NAT, and the rest of the IP ranges will be bridged. Actually, that was a smooth decision from Elisa - they can maintain their proprietary setup on the 192.168.100.0/24 network, and those who wish to go for more advanced stuff can simply attach a router and set up their own networks. Cool. Now I just have to wait for Verkkokauppa to deliver my order...

*UPDATE*
I switched to bridge mode to see how it works.
All internet activity has suddenly stopped - not even the digibox can access the internet anymore.
I can't access the modem's configuration page, neither. My PC still has the IP 192.168.100.25, so it should have worked.

I refreshed the IP address on my PC, got 81.xxx.xxx.xxx this time - seems to belong to Elisa as well.
What's that address? My guess would be that it's my public IP - but I could not access the internet from this address neither.

Any ideas how to do a factory reset on the modem? Thank you.

In the meantime, I am back on ADSL again...
I opened up the box looking for a factory reset button or jumper, but I found only a button above the USB plug - the button seems to reset the modem, but it does not seem to be a factory reset.
BTW: in case you need to know,
- the WLAN board seems to be easily detachable. It is using an Ralink RT2880F chip.
- the LAN chip is Atheros AR8316-AK1E

So, while you can switch to bridged mode, you might want to hold your horses until the issues are sorted out with it...
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There's no way to turn off the WLAN is seems. I guess I'll have to open the box and take off the WLAN module from the board.


I would suggest not to do that, the modem will lose warranty and also I think that Elisa owns that box and not you.


I refreshed the IP address on my PC, got 81.xxx.xxx.xxx this time - seems to belong to Elisa as well.
What's that address? My guess would be that it's my public IP - but I could not access the internet from this address neither.

Any ideas how to do a factory reset on the modem? Thank you.


That IP is already public IP, check that you have correct DNS settings (193.229.0.40 and 193.229.0.42).

Reset will happen with that button, which you found. Modem needs to be powered on and uou need to press that button for 10 seconds, the lights will flash once and modem will reboot with default settings.

I noticed (and someone else as well) that at the same time you can still use for example IP 192.168.100.100 and it will be routed while modem is in bridged mode. So you could recover your Internet connectivity still.

Reset will happen with that button, which you found. Modem needs to be powered on and uou need to press that button for 10 seconds, the lights will flash once and modem will reboot with default settings.

I pressed the button until the blue leds flashed once while the power was on. I waited until it's rebooted, still nothing. I still get the 81.xxx.xxx.xxx address. The PC can access the internet now. The digibox is still saying "Contacting server..." but nothing there, neither.
Am I supposed to power it on while I am holding this button?


I noticed (and someone else as well) that at the same time you can still use for example IP 192.168.100.100 and it will be routed while modem is in bridged mode. So you could recover your Internet connectivity still.

I tried setting the IP address manually to all these:
- 192.168.100.25
- 192.168.100.69
- 192.168.100.71
- 192.168.100.100
with subnet 255.255.255.0 and gateway 192.168.100.1.
Nothing. Not even ping.

*UPDATE*
I called support, they said I have to hold that button for 20 seconds. I did, still nothing, still in bridged mode...
Base don my observations, the bridged mode seems to be working so that the first DHCP request gets the public IP address, and that's about it. There's no 192.168.100.0/24 network for the digibox.
So, if you connect your digibox and a router, most likely the router will get the public IP (it's refreshing its address faster), and the digibox will be left without an IP address - and that's why it cannot access the internet.

Still waiting for a way to reset to factory settings... Anyone?
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The digibox is still saying "Contacting server..." but nothing there, neither.


Have you already tried to restart the digibox? It might be possible that it is a bit stuck and doesn't refresh the address. I have sometimes seen that and restart has solved the problem with digibox.


So, if you connect your digibox and a router, most likely the router will get the public IP (it's refreshing its address faster), and the digibox will be left without an IP address - and that's why it cannot access the internet.


I will try this when I get home, currently I am not next to my digibox. But sounds weird. How many public machines you have? A router, a PC and a digibox?

Have you already tried to restart the digibox? It might be possible that it is a bit stuck and doesn't refresh the address. I have sometimes seen that and restart has solved the problem with digibox.

Well, I used the power button on the remote.
Now I did a full power cycle using the power plug.

I will wait a bit and see how it works out.

I will try this when I get home, currently I am not next to my digibox. But sounds weird. How many public machines you have? A router, a PC and a digibox?

Yes, weird indeed. I unplugged almost everything, so I have only the Elisa cable modem and attached to it are the digibox and the PC.
The PC gets the 81.xxx.xxx.xxx public address, I am using it now, so that works.

I called customer service. They know only two ways to reset the modem to "routed mode":
- set a static IP within the 192.168.100.10-192.168.100.59 range (that's the LAN range) and access the modem that way, or,
- do the factory reset, pressing the reset button for 20secs.

I tried setting a static address -> did not work, can't access 192.168.100.1, and I can't ping it neither.
I tried the factory reset, but that apparently does not reset the modem to routed mode.

So be careful experimenting with the "bridged mode".

Customer service said they'll call me as soon as they hear something.

*UPDATE*
Miikka, the digibox started working after the power cycle.
I tried once again assigning a static IP to my PC -hoping that if the digibox works, then other things should work as well, but no luck. No ping, nothing. So, I gave up.

After a few minutes customer support called me back, and asked me if I have another computer that I could use to access the cable modem. I said I have a few, so unplugged my PC and hooked up my wife's laptop with the cable modem (using wired connection) and I set the same static IP: 192.168.100.25. Guess what - it was working. I was able to access the cable modem configuration and change it back to "routed mode". The interesting thing is that the only difference between my PC and my wife's laptop is that mine has Windows XP, hers has Windows 7. Both are using the exact same firewall software (Agnitum Outpost that is). I tried everything with the firewall completely disabled on my PC, while I did not even touch the firewall on my wife's laptop and it was working. Go figure.

Anyway, I had to power cycle the digibox once again, but it detected the network right away and now everything seems to be working as it was originally.

I'd like to say "Thank you!" for the patience over at the customer support!
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I went bridged mode as well, my own router needed DHCP refresh but started working immediately after that. IP Phone got DHCP refreshed automatically and didn't have problems. Digibox got a new IP but couldn't connect to Elisa Viihde so I restarted it and it started to work after it.

No problems in here, happily using bridged mode and my own home network is now without double-NAT.  🙂
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Kunniamerkki
zotya, just in case: digibox is supposed to have 192.168.100.70 address if you don't want to get a public IP for that. I forgot to mention that in my last post, that way it works at least. But it's good that everything's working again.

I've got a similar problem with my Xbox 360, last night it got public IP but later that night when I tried to play online again - nothing. Today was the same, no public IP assigned. If there's something else than waiting that would fix it just let me know. 🙂

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